Hello there - this FAQ is _not_ an attempt to describe the technical aspects of cdr's. There are many faq's out there already that do wonderful jobs of that. Click here for an especially good one. This faq is designed specifically with CDR trading in mind. CDR trading is the legal trading of live recordings on a 1:1 basis and with absolutely _no_ profiteering.
I seem to get asked lots of questions about cdr's, so this is intended as a compiliation of the information I most frequenly give out. If you think something needs to be added, e-mail me.
If you want to know about converting shows digitally from DAT>CD or MD>CD or, in very certain cases, analog>CD the right way, then click here.
.5 - Will such and such drive with such and such hard drive work in my computer with X amount of RAM, etc..?
1 - How fast of a drive should I get?
2 - What is a cache?
3 - How big of a cache do I need?
4 - What's a buffer underrun?
5 - Should I get IDE or SCSI?
6 - What is DAO?
7 - What is DAE?
8 - What are some good audio rippers?
9 - Can/Should I do CD>CD or CD>HD>CD?
10 - What's the difference between CDR and CDRW? Should I get one or the other?
11 - What are some good CDR drives?
12 - Can I get a CDR for my laptop?
13 - How much hard drive space do I need?
14 - What are some good media brands?
15 - Are all CDR media 74 minutes? How come some CD's I buy in stores are longer?
16 - What CDR software is good?
17 - How much does all this stuff cost?
18 - Can I put mp3's onto a CDR?
19 - Is it bad to put mp3's onto a CDR?
20 - How do I put analogs onto CDR?
21 - I got a CD that wasn't done DAO. How do I get rid of
the 2 second gaps?
22 - What about those standalone CDR units? Are they any
good?
23 - How do I get in touch with CDR traders?
24 - How come CDR traders are all jerks who won't do
B&P?
25 - Okay, so they're not all jerks. How do I get a
B&P
Will such and such drive with such and such hard drive work in my computer with X amount of RAM, etc..?
Let me say this first - I DON'T KNOW. That's not because I don't want to help you, it's because there are way too many
factors involved in burning a CD, especially since there tend to be a lot
of random programs running in the background with
computers today that I cannot possibly give you a definite answer. If you were to give me every last detail you could think
of about your computer, I bet I would still have to ask you something before giving my opinion. The only way to find out
is to try and, if it doesn't work, fix whatever is causing the problem. Having said that...
How fast of a drive should I get?
Basically, you want to get the fastest drive you can afford. The fastest "affordable"
drives I know right now are 8x. I know Plextor makes one, not sure if anyone else does.
Personally, I think 8x is overkill, plus I actually burn all my cd's at 2x.
All I know is that, when I burn a show at 4x, I get skips covering, maybe 20 seconds total out of a 2.5 hour show. Not much, right? Well, at 2x, I get no skips at all. I use a Rotel 5 disc changer, excellent transport.
What is a cache?
The cache, also known as a buffer, is a bit of memory mounted directly to the cdr. The data being burned to the cd
is being pulled from the cache. This is a kind of backup - the hard drive is culled to
first fill up the cache, then the data is burned from there. That way, if your data is
really fragmented or your computer gets busy for a split second doing something else and
occupies the hard drive, you still have all that data in the cache to keep things running
smoothly.
How big of a cache do I need?
I say at least 1MB. In fact, just about every modern drive has 1MB of cache - I haven't
seen anything smaller than that in a few years. Plextor's 4x burner has a 2MB, but that's
kind of overkill. But it never hurts - get the biggest cache you can get.
What's a buffer underrun?
When the cache, or buffer, becomes empty and the cdr runs out of data to burn to the disc. That means the hard drive,
for some reason, has stopped sending data to the drive or can't do it quickly enough. Common causes are doing too many things
with your computer while burning or background programs that get suddenly memory-intensive. As you can tell from my
vague wording, finding out what causes buffer underrun can be a hit-or-miss process...
Should I get IDE or SCSI?
This is a tough one. Technically, either one has more than enough data throughput for a cdr
(a 4x cdr transfers 400KB/s. the slowest IDE and SCSI connections can do at least 1-5MB/s).
So what it really boils down to is which is more robust. Face it - when you're burning a CD,
you are very likely to try and do other stuff, like check e-mail, write a paper, or surf for
porn (uh...I mean...). So, what you want to consider is whether the connection is able to
still transfer enough data even while you're doing other stuff.
IDE is a one-way interface. Data can move in only one direction through any one IDE controller. Lucky for you, all motherboards made in the last 4 years or more have 2 IDE controllers. Therefore, if you plug the hard drive into one, and the cdr into the other, the data will travel continuously (into one controller, out the other, one way travel at all times). However...what if you try to save something to the hard drive? Then all data stops going out and you risk a potential buffer underrun.
SCSI is a two way path, so you don't have these problems, but it costs more.
By the way - if you have a Mac, then you'll want a SCSI drive, as Mac's use that interface.
What is DAO?
DAO stands for Disc At Once. It means all the tracks are written without turning the laser off, as a
continuous data segment. This means the music is fluid, with no gaps in between tracks. Not all drives are capable of DAO
so make sure the one you're considering is. Never trade a show that is not DAO. All it usually takes is clicking some buttons
in the CDR mastering software, so there's no excuse.
What is DAE?
DAE stands for Digital Audio Extraction. Basically - you got a cd and you want to
save the tracks to the hard drive so you can burn them to a cdr. You could use the cd player and
record it, but that means you use the (usually crappy) d/a converter in the cd-rom. What you want to do
is extract the data digitally - pull the 1's and 0's off directly.
A word of caution - not all drives can do DAE, and the ones that can do it better are usually, but not always, SCSI CD-ROMS. My Plextor 12/20 SCSI drive can do it at 16X. An IDE drive in my friend's Dell can do it at .5X.
Another word of caution - not all drives can do DAE without errors. You can get dropouts. Usually, you wouldn't notice it since it's only a few bits here and there, but it always pisses me off to know I'm not making a perfect copy. The only drives I know of that are "bit-accurate" are Plextor ones, though drives are getting better and better everyday.
How do I get rid of the popping and clicking after DAE?
The drive is extracting too quickly - you're getting extreme errors. If your ripping software can do it, extract at
a slower speed. Always check to make sure you got a clean extraction.
What are some good audio rippers?
There are always new ones coming out. I still like WinDAC - very simple program. A good list can be found at
http://www.mp3.com under downloads>rippers.
Can/Should I do CD>CD or CD>HD>CD?
Depends. The key here is avoiding buffer underruns. How do you avoid buffer underruns? Make sure the buffer
doesn't run out. How do you make sure it doesn't run out (am I annoying you yet?)? Make sure the source CD-ROM
can do DAE faster than the CDR can burn. Technically.
All I know is that my CD-ROM can do DAE at 16x, and my CDR burns at 4x, and I coastered once. I now rip to the hard drive, then burn to CD.
What's the difference between CDR and CDRW? Should I get one or the other?
CDR stands for CD-Recordable. CDRW stands for CD-ReWritable. A CDRW can be erased and written back onto many times. The
downsides are that they are almost universally unreadable in audio players because of the extremely low reflectivity and that
only multi-session certified CD-ROM's can read them. Most new CD-ROM's CAN. All CDRW drives can still write to CDR blanks.
Personally, I have no use for a CDRW so I have a CDR drive. If you can use one and it's not too expensive, go for it, I say.
What are some good CDR drives?
Personally, I am only familiar with SCSI drives. I use a Panasonic, and I've recommended Plextor and Teac drives to the
satisfaction of my friends. I've heard that Sony's are okay now that they finally added DAO to their firmware. I've heard
very mixed reviews of HP drives - from terrible to great.
Can I get a CDR for my laptop?
Sure, but it takes a bit more effort. The problem is that, while laptops have IDE connections, they're on the inside, and
SCSI connections come only in the form of relatively expensive add-on PCMCIA cards. You can also get parallel port
CDR's but, if you think about it, parallel ports are pretty slow so you'll need to be very careful about buffer underruns.
How much hard drive space do I need?
Well, if you can do CD>CD, then not much. If you want to rip the the HD first, then..technically, about 700 MB's per
disc is about right. I personally have two 2.5GB partitions on the fastest of my hard drives for extracting to. I find it to
be a very good size.
What are some good media brands?
Anything but Maxell. Just kidding. First, make sure the media you're getting is certified for the speed you want to burn
at. All media is 2x certified, and I think all of them are now 4x, as well, but I'm not 100% sure. My favorite brands
include: TDK, Sony, Kao, Ricoh, and Mitsui. Mitsui Golds seem to be the
contender for best overall media, though it's a bit expensive.
I find that just about any media burns in my drive - the acid test is whether the burned disc will work in the audio player. Some generics have more erros on the outer tracks and sometimes can store less than the normal amount of data.
Always find out what brand of media the person you're trading with prefers. Some people have very strong feelings about one media over another, and it's your responsibility to respect that.
Are all CDR media 74 minutes? How come some CD's I buy in stores are longer?
The CDR standard calls for all media to be 74:59 in length. It is true that some brands are a bit longer, maybe by a
minute or two. Recently, some full 80 minute CDR's have come out. The problem with these is that, while they may burn
just fine in the drive, since they deviate so severely from the standard they may not play in audio players. To be honest,
I would've found those 6 extra minutes a big help for some shows that ended up on 3 discs, but I wouldn't have used them
anyway since the media is kind of expensive and not reliably playable.
Some commercial cd's are well over 74 minutes, sometimes as high as 83-84 minutes, because, since the producers and engineers know exactly how many tracks there will be, they can make the Table of Contents, aka the TOC, as small as possible, saving enough room to cram some more music on there. There are really no options when copying these other than 1) editing the tracks (pain in the ass), 2) using non-standard 80 minute media (which is risky) or 3) using a 2nd disc (one of the most irritating things in the world)
What CDR software is good?
Lots of them. These are the two I see the most often:
How much does all this stuff cost?
First - look for yourself. A great street price search engine can be found at pricewatch.com.
Second - some rough info, all estimates off the top of my head at 1AM on a Saturday night...
Can I put mp3's onto a CDR?
Sure. Something that people must realize is that a cd is merely a piece of digital media - it's not storing anything different
than what is on your hard drive or on a floppy disc. If that data happens to be in one format, it's graphics for the latest
Star Wars computer game. If it's another, it's an audio CD. A third, and it's a disc of mp3's. But both cases are just a bunch of 1's and 0's in a specific order,
nothing else.
So, if you want to burn actual mp3's onto a disc, in mp3 format, just burn a data disc and select the mp3 files. If you want to burn a disc playable in an audio cd player from mp3 files, uncompress the files (in winamp, you go to Options, then change the output to wav files) and burn those, making it an "audio" cd. that's it.
Is it bad to put mp3's onto a CDR?
Not if you tell people that the CD is made from mp3's. Even if you can't hear a difference, an mp3 is still a compressed
file - bits were dropped out to save room, and, to some people, myself included, that's not good enough. If I can get a
CD that is no different than the original master made at the show, then I'd rather have that than mp3's, regardless
of how high a rate you set the compression at.
But that's my personal opinion - if you tell people that it's mp3, you'll find lots of people out there that will still want to trade for it. But be sure to make it known.
How do I put analogs onto CDR?
You can. Click here for information on whether
you should do it at all and, if you do, how to do it right.
I got a CD that wasn't done DAO. How do I get rid of the 2 second
gaps?
It seems as though there is not a consistent answer to this, as either
audio rippers, or CD-ROMs doing DAE, or both, handle these discs
(Track-At-Once, or TAO) differently. For instance, using WinDAC 1.41 and
my Plextor 12/20 Plex, it just rips only the tracks, and does not include
the 2 seconds in between. However, I have spoken to some others who use
different drives and software and they have to edit out the 2 seconds,
which is really hard to do.
If you do have to edit it out, make sure the editing software is displaying 74 frames per second (don't know where it would be, you have to search for the setting) and then edit it. You'll get a more accurate cut of the sound that way, and less of a blip when you chop out the gap.
The real solution is for everyone to burn DAO...
What about those standalone CDR units? Are they any good?
No one answer to this one. The following is a slightly modified posting I made to alt.music.bluenote a while back:
[A] standalone...[is a] CDR that doesn't need a computer. The nicer units have actually decent a/d converters in them and, since you don't have the electrical interference from inside a computer, it's much cleaner. The downside is you can't de-hiss a tape (though I guess you could use Dolby NR...).
There are two kinds of standalones - consumer and pro. Consumer units use "consumer audio cdr's," which cost about $5 a blank. These range in price from a pretty cheaply made Phillips 760 at about $350 to the much nicer Phillips 880 at bout $500. Phillips also makes a dual-well that got a decent review in Stereo Review and Pioneer makes a few that I'm not familiar with.
[The downsides of the Phillips dual well is that it does not have a sampling rate converter (you can't go DAT>CDR with it unless the DAT was sampled at 44.1KHz) and, if the source CD is copyright protected, the unit will convert to analog, then back to digital WITHOUT TELLING YOU. You will not be getting a true copy]
All consumer units obey copyright protection. analog>cdr will set SCMS to 11. That cdr>cdr will be 10. and you can't make anymore copies from there...
As for Pro decks - these do not obey SCMS, and some actually reset it to 00 (infinite copy). These decks also can use the $1 computer blanks, though they are much more expensive. My favorite is the HHb unit - $1300.
So, the deal is, the affordable cdr standalones have copyright issues, and the pro ones are insanely expensive. I do like the HHb a lot, though...
How do I get in touch with CDR traders?
There are a few places. If you are a CDR trader, that is you can
copy cd's yourself, try subbing onto cdrtrading@onelist.com. Otherwise,
with the growing prevalence of cd trading, it's about the same process as
tape trading - you just have to go out there and look for lists.
How come all CDR traders are jerks who won't do B&P?
Ahem. A trader isn't a jerk if he doesn't do B&P. Think about it - cdr
trading has exploded the last half year or so. There is a whole new field
of media that is easy to use and that has players all over the place.
Relatively easy to produce, and can be very high quality with no sound
degradation. The people who have cdr's and who can copy cd's are just as
eager to get shows as the people who don't have either and must grovel.
So you end up with people wanting B&P's and getting rebuffed because the
traders are too busy.
You'll notice there isn't a suggestion of rudeness or anything here. Traders tend to be busy. Be patient.
Besides, if you're asking for a B&P, who's doing who a favor?
Okay, so they're not all jerks. How do I get a B&P?
First rule of groveling - patience. They're doing you a favor, never
forget it.
It's the same rules. Be patient, be nice. Don't expect everyone to B&P what you want. Take what you can get. Always use good media - having really trashy media (hmmm...Maxell?) sent can really piss a trader off if they explicitly say not to.
Links to CDR Stuff